Discussion:
InfoWorld review of JBuilder
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David Harper
2007-03-29 16:33:29 UTC
Permalink
The latest issue of InfoWorld magazine (March 26, 2007) has a comparative
review of JBuilder 2007 Enterprise Edition, IBM Rational Application
Developer for WEbSphere Softwate 7.0 and Sun NetBeans 5.5. JBuilder 2007
gets the highest score/rating. See:
http://www.infoworld.com/article/07/03/26/13FEjavaides_1.html

- David Harper
dingfelder
2007-03-29 22:55:13 UTC
Permalink
Good Find David !

I like the quote:

"For Java coding, JBuilder has three different sets of code auditors and analyzers: the open-source PMD, Findbugs, and Borland’s own code-inspection tool. These work well together (in fact, they run the risk of overflowing the developer with flagged items)"

This is very true... JBuilder showed me 35,000 warnings when I first built one of my projects :D

One interesting thing I am wondering about... While they added netbeans (requiring the addition of their plugins), they did not add eclipse, and instead only added IBM and Codegear's extensions to eclipse.

Curious.
Post by David Harper
The latest issue of InfoWorld magazine (March 26, 2007) has a comparative
review of JBuilder 2007 Enterprise Edition, IBM Rational Application
Developer for WEbSphere Softwate 7.0 and Sun NetBeans 5.5. JBuilder 2007
http://www.infoworld.com/article/07/03/26/13FEjavaides_1.html
- David Harper
Lori M Olson [TeamB]
2007-04-02 23:40:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by dingfelder
Good Find David !
"For Java coding, JBuilder has three different sets of code auditors
and analyzers: the open-source PMD, Findbugs, and Borland’s own
code-inspection tool. These work well together (in fact, they run the
risk of overflowing the developer with flagged items)"
This is very true... JBuilder showed me 35,000 warnings when I first
built one of my projects :D
One interesting thing I am wondering about... While they added
netbeans (requiring the addition of their plugins), they did not add
eclipse, and instead only added IBM and Codegear's extensions to
eclipse.
Curious.
They seemed to be reviewing "enterprise" class products. Eclipse, as a
stand alone, is not even close to being "enterprise" anything.
--
Regards,

Lori Olson [TeamB]

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dingfelder
2007-04-03 22:19:16 UTC
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So, let me be sure I have this right...

Netbeans + their plugins is enterprise class, yet Eclipse + their plugins (there are a LOT more eclipse plugins) is not?

I do not see how that could be.
Post by Lori M Olson [TeamB]
Post by dingfelder
Good Find David !
"For Java coding, JBuilder has three different sets of code auditors
and analyzers: the open-source PMD, Findbugs, and Borland’s own
code-inspection tool. These work well together (in fact, they run the
risk of overflowing the developer with flagged items)"
This is very true... JBuilder showed me 35,000 warnings when I first
built one of my projects :D
One interesting thing I am wondering about... While they added
netbeans (requiring the addition of their plugins), they did not add
eclipse, and instead only added IBM and Codegear's extensions to
eclipse.
Curious.
They seemed to be reviewing "enterprise" class products. Eclipse, as a
stand alone, is not even close to being "enterprise" anything.
--
Regards,
Lori Olson [TeamB]
------------
Save yourself, and everyone else, some time and search the
newsgroups and the FAQ-O-Matic before posting your next
question.
Google Advanced Newsgroup Search
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http://www.borland.com/newsgroups/ngsearch.html
http://www.visi.com/~gyles19/fom-serve/cache/1.html
Lori M Olson [TeamB]
2007-04-03 22:13:21 UTC
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Post by dingfelder
So, let me be sure I have this right...
Netbeans + their plugins is enterprise class, yet Eclipse + their
plugins (there are a LOT more eclipse plugins) is not?
I do not see how that could be.
And yet... it is true. More plugins != quality product
--
Regards,

Lori Olson [TeamB]
andy dingfelder
2007-04-03 22:52:02 UTC
Permalink
Perhaps I just do not know enough about Netbeans.

What plug ins make their product "enterprise class" ?

The only plug in I know that is significantly better than eclipse is
their GUI builder.
Post by Lori M Olson [TeamB]
Post by dingfelder
So, let me be sure I have this right...
Netbeans + their plugins is enterprise class, yet Eclipse + their
plugins (there are a LOT more eclipse plugins) is not?
I do not see how that could be.
And yet... it is true. More plugins != quality product
Lori M Olson [TeamB]
2007-04-04 02:23:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by andy dingfelder
Perhaps I just do not know enough about Netbeans.
What plug ins make their product "enterprise class" ?
The only plug in I know that is significantly better than eclipse is
their GUI builder.
Well, maybe we are talking at cross purposes here. I was arguing, based
on my own experience/knowledge, that Eclipse (bare) does not belong in a
review of enterprise Java IDE's.

Now you seem to be arguing a different case... that Netbeans does not
belong. I don't know enough about Netbeans, other than what I read on
Gosling's blog, to have an opinion on that.

--


Regards,

Lori Olson [TeamB]

------------

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andy dingfelder
2007-04-05 00:07:15 UTC
Permalink
Sorry if my message came across as confusing.

What I said is:

"While they added netbeans (requiring the addition of their plugins),
they did not add eclipse"

What I intended was not an argument that (bare) eclipse should be
included *or* that (bare) netbeans should not.

I instead was trying to say that I thought it was interesting that they
were not treated the same in the article.

Reading through the comments here, I would say now:

1. the article did not treat them the same.
2. neither "bare" edition is enterprise class.

As to whether either is enterprise class *after* adding plugins/bundles
and how easy it is to get to that upgraded state is another issue
altogether.
Post by Lori M Olson [TeamB]
Well, maybe we are talking at cross purposes here. I was arguing, based
on my own experience/knowledge, that Eclipse (bare) does not belong in a
review of enterprise Java IDE's.
Now you seem to be arguing a different case... that Netbeans does not
belong. I don't know enough about Netbeans, other than what I read on
Gosling's blog, to have an opinion on that.
Paul Nichols[TeamB]
2007-04-04 03:29:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by andy dingfelder
Perhaps I just do not know enough about Netbeans.
What plug ins make their product "enterprise class" ?
The only plug in I know that is significantly better than eclipse is
their GUI builder.
Post by Lori M Olson [TeamB]
Post by dingfelder
So, let me be sure I have this right...
Netbeans + their plugins is enterprise class, yet Eclipse + their
plugins (there are a LOT more eclipse plugins) is not?
I do not see how that could be.
And yet... it is true. More plugins != quality product
Raw Eclipse is dismal. The base tools are no where close to NetBeans out
of the Box.

NetBeans is an integrated IDE. Eclipse is not.

It can take days to get a raw Eclipse with tools to make you productive.
It takes about 30 minutes on a high speed connection to get NetBeans ready.

If you like Eclipse, that is fine. Get something like JBuilder to make
it work well, or at the least MyEclipse. Both you have to pay for.

NetBeans, however, does not need a MyEclipse. The tools provided and
included with NetBeans will provide AppServer support, Refactoring, Web
Development, J2EE development, Web Services development and Deployment,
and with the 2 other downloads (Enterprise Pak and J2ME Pak), you get
Corba, EJBs, JMS support, UML modeling, Database modeling (limited),
Java Script support, J2ME app support, WAP and WML support, Profiling,
ANT Build support, Maven support, JSF, etc.

You can get all of this with Eclipse free tools, but they will not be as
good, unless you go commercial. Try it and you will see why.

I think the article was right on! JBuilder is the best, NetBeans 5.5 and
5.5.1 probably second, IMHO.
andy dingfelder
2007-04-05 00:29:37 UTC
Permalink
Paul,
Post by Paul Nichols[TeamB]
NetBeans is an integrated IDE. Eclipse is not.
I don't know what you mean by that.


Looking on their site, it appears that UML modeling, Profiling, Visual
Web Application Development, Mobility features, SVN support, SOA
development, and other stuff are not included in the base ide. For
these and other tools, a separate "bundle" download is required.

I'm not saying that is bad, as Eclipse also requires separate "plugin"
downloads.
Post by Paul Nichols[TeamB]
Raw Eclipse is dismal. The base tools are no where close to NetBeans out
of the Box.
I think it depends upon what features you need.

For example, if you require GUI (swing) development, Netbeans will be
the best perhaps.

If you want Mylar Integration, or perhaps you are do embedded chip
development in c, or you require integrated php and perl, etc, then
Eclipse may be the logical choice.

If you do not care about JSF Struts or EJB development, that will affect
your choice as well.

All I am saying is that the usefulness of the "bare" edition depends
upon the features you require.

For me personally, bare bones Eclipse is better than enhanced Netbeans,
as I do only standalone development (client apps with no webserver etc)
and I do php, c/c++, embedded pic development, perl and more. But, in
the end, Jbuilder + the extra eclipse plugins I need is the best option
for me.
Post by Paul Nichols[TeamB]
It can take days to get a raw Eclipse with tools to make you productive.
It takes about 30 minutes on a high speed connection to get NetBeans ready.
If you like Eclipse, that is fine. Get something like JBuilder to make
it work well, or at the least MyEclipse. Both you have to pay for.
Just for the record, I prefer JBuilder :)
Post by Paul Nichols[TeamB]
I think the article was right on! JBuilder is the best, NetBeans 5.5 and
5.5.1 probably second, IMHO.
I agree
David Orriss Jr [TeamB]
2007-04-11 06:17:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by dingfelder
So, let me be sure I have this right...
Netbeans + their plugins is enterprise class, yet Eclipse + their
plugins (there are a LOT more eclipse plugins) is not?
I do not see how that could be.
You haven't tried the WTP on it's own then... :P
--
David Orriss Jr. [TeamB]
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David Harper
2007-04-03 17:52:24 UTC
Permalink
"David When I wrote that the latest issue of InfoWorld magazine (March 26,
2007) had a review of JBuilder 2007, I was tempted to add:

"Is anyone here old enough to remember /printed/ technical magazines?"

At one time - years ago - I subscribed to about 25 computer/programming
magazines. "Computer Language" was my favorite.

Well, guess what? The very next issue of InfoWorld magazine (April 2, 2007)
had this on its cover: "Final Print Issue"! They are completely web-based
now: http://www.inforworld.com/ The reason? They said they were following
the money... advertising dollars.

I think I was a paid or "complementary copy" subscriber for most of
InfoWorld's 29 year history.

Turn. Turn. Turn. To Everything There is a Season.

- David Harper
n***@nopost
2007-04-03 21:47:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Harper
Well, guess what? The very next issue of InfoWorld magazine (April 2,
2007) had this on its cover: "Final Print Issue"! They are completely
web-based now: http://www.inforworld.com/ The reason? They said they
were following the money... advertising dollars.
Like Byte.
Does anyone remember it ?
Does anyone read it ?

Most of these dying, ex-print magazines do poorly when they move to the
web. The web is not going to cure the woes of a crippled, terminally
defunct magazine.
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