general java topics

[Buch]

I think we should post here general Java topics, not just JBuilder related.
(yes, even eclipse news :) )
Because there are no traffic, but everybody comes here expecting one, it is
no wonder
we have outbursts of interesting, but unrelated to Java discussions ...


--
Replace zeroes with "o" to reply

[Paul Furbacher [TeamB]]

Post by Buch
I think we should post here general Java
topics, not just JBuilder related.
(yes, even eclipse news :) )
Because there are no traffic, but everybody
comes here expecting one, [...]

Actually, you make an incorrect assumption. Most
expect no traffic here. When we're done with
our technical work, we go home, go out for a
run, a long bike ride, play with our kids
(those fortunate to have them), read a book,
walk in the park. The absolutely last thing
we'll do is waste precious time in a non-technical
newsgroup. I suggest you do the same. You
are of course free to do what you want, but
I'll remind you ... life is much shorter than
you think.
--
Paul Furbacher (TeamB)

Save time, search the archives:
http://www.borland.com/newsgroups/ngsearch.html

Is it in Joi Ellis's Faq-O-Matic?
http://www.visi.com/~gyles19/fom-serve/cache/1.html

Finally, please send responses to the newsgroup only.
That means, do not send email directly to me.
Thank you.

[Buch]

Post by Paul Furbacher [TeamB]
Actually, you make an incorrect assumption. Most
expect no traffic here. When we're done with
our technical work, we go home, go out for a

Do I?
If you do not expect traffic, that means you have no reason to open
newsgroup anyway. :))
And when _w_e_'_re done developing, we visit various places on Internet,
including non-tech
groups to enlighten _u_s, share experiences and insight, and learn
something.
Then _w_e go home, and do things you mentioned. _W_e do fitness and jogging
mostly, because _w_e retired from
tae-kwon-do (korean karate).
_W_e don't feel our time is wasted in non-tech groups. Perhapse _w_e do not
share same perception of time preciousness as _y_o_u (plural) do.

Anyway, thanks for reminder. I will not disturb further, so you don't have
to waste time anymore.
Have a nice day.

[Alessandro Federici]

"Buch" <***@yah00.c0m> wrote in message news:40f81454$***@newsgroups.borland.com...
[..]

Perhapse _w_e do not share same perception of time preciousness as _y_o_u

(plural) do.

Exactly

[David Orriss, Jr. [TeamB]]

Post by Buch
Perhapse _w_e do not
share same perception of time preciousness as _y_o_u (plural) do.

So... you're immortal?



--
David Orriss Jr. *TeamB*
http://www.davenet.net/
* Please limit all responses to the newsgroups. Thanks! *
Got a JBuilder website? Join the JBuilder Netring! Check out
http://www.davenet.net/jbwebring/jbwebring.htm for more information!

Oh yea, I have a blog: http://mywebpages.comcast.net/daorriss/

Save yourself some time and check these sites:

Borland Newsgroup Search:
http://www.borland.com/newsgroups/ngsearch.html
Joi Ellis's Faq-O-Matic:
http://www.visi.com/~gyles19/fom-serve/cache/1.html

[Buch]

Post by David Orriss, Jr. [TeamB]
So... you're immortal?

I did not died so far. :))

Seriously, I think we all have certain moments in life when we are fed up
with what are we doing, so we want
something different, or want to do other things like fammily or sport. Most
of people have phases, so after some time
they return to their original area of interest.
Currently, I'm not fed up with newsgroups, I find them relaxing and keeping
my mind in shape .. :)
I think I found right balance between personal life, bussiness, hobby and
sport.
That does not mean I will not reduce newsgroups and everything in future, if
I found that I want to.
But I dont think so - reading newsgroups also accelerates learning new
things and keeping knowledge up to date - in order to have same effect,
I would have to read a lot of books (and you need to obtain them first).

[Paul Nichols (TeamB)]

Post by Buch
I think we should post here general Java topics, not just JBuilder
related. (yes, even eclipse news :) )
Because there are no traffic, but everybody comes here expecting one, it
is no wonder
we have outbursts of interesting, but unrelated to Java discussions ...
--
Replace zeroes with "o" to reply

Why would you think that Borland would want to host a ng that discusses
competitor products?

If you want to discuss the Java language, then there is the
jbuilder.java.language ng. Most of the other topics are also discussed
under the appropriate headings (ie Swing, Web Services, EJBs, Database,
etc).

However, I do not think it fair to discuss Oracle JDeveloper, Net Beans,
Eclipse, Sun One Studio, etc, topics/issues, in a Borland sponsored forum.
The only exception might be to provide a impartial comparison between the
different tools, and even that is stretching it somewhat, unless a specific
question is asked in sincerity and is not trolling.

Frankly, I do not know about most people here, but I do not have the time,
nor the luxury, of constantly changing toolsets. Therefore, I am not always
up on the others.

I will try one or the other once in a while, when they get positive press.
However, personally, I find them lacking in comparison to JB. That is not a
new assessment, look at my former post as well ;-)

There are other NGs that cater to specific Java IDEs. If a question arises
about a problem or issue one has with Net Beans or Eclipse, etc. they
should go to the appropriate NG, not expect Borland nor orland users to
answer their questions about products they may not be familiar with. This
is not a prejudicial nor denigration of other products, but my experience
has taught me that JBuilder is hard to beat overall. Seems most IDE reviews
share that sentiment.

Just my two cents worth (for what they are worth). :)

[Alessandro Federici]

"Paul Nichols (TeamB)" <***@comp.net> wrote in message news:***@newsgroups.borland.com...

[..]
Paul, come on ;-) How many times did you talk about JBoss, Eclipse and so on
to demonstrate how better the Java technology is compared to the one Delphi
is based upon (read Windows, COM, etc)? Was good info, regardless of the
fact was indirectly slamming what Delphi depends upon. Personally, I wish
there was more of it. I, for one, once invited Steve Garland on our
newsgroups to talk about ASTA. Information is good if done in a respectful
way, like you did many times.

http://radio.weblogs.com/0001011/2003/02/26.html (see point 18. There's some
good in it ;-) )

Anyhow, that said, I am done ;-) This ain't my house and you guys make the
rules.

[Alessandro Federici]

"Paul Nichols (TeamB)" <***@comp.net> wrote in message news:***@newsgroups.borland.com...

[..]
Paul, come on ;-) How many times did you talk about JBoss, Eclipse and so on
and also tried to demonstrate how better the Java technology is compared to
the one Delphi is based upon (read Windows, COM, etc)? Yours was good info,
regardless of the fact it was talking about competing products in a few
cases and regardless of the fact was indirectly slamming what Delphi depends
upon (which might be seen as equally bad for Delphi as to talk about a
competitor dev platform). Personally, I wish there was more of it. I, for
one, once invited Steve Garland on our newsgroups to talk about ASTA.
Information is good if done in a respectful way, like you did many times.

http://radio.weblogs.com/0001011/2003/02/26.html (see point 18. There's some
good in it ;-) )

Anyhow, that said, I am done ;-) This ain't my house and you guys make the
rules.

[Paul Nichols (TeamB)]

Post by Alessandro Federici
[..]
Paul, come on ;-) How many times did you talk about JBoss, Eclipse and so
on and also tried to demonstrate how better the Java technology is
compared to the one Delphi is based upon (read Windows, COM, etc)? Yours
was good info, regardless of the fact it was talking about competing
products in a few cases and regardless of the fact was indirectly slamming
what Delphi depends upon (which might be seen as equally bad for Delphi as
to talk about a competitor dev platform).

I am not talking about fair comparisons Alessandro, but more like the
questions that some are posting asking specifically "How do I create SOAP
envelops in Eclipse?", etc. This is not the place to ask Eclipse, Oracle
JDeveloper, etc. tech questions. If you look at some recent posts, you will
see people asking these very types of questions.

I thought I specifically mentioned that fair or impartial comparisons may be
ok.

Look again at the content of the paragraph in my response:

<Disclaimer>"However, I do not think it fair to discuss Oracle
JDeveloper,  Net Beans,
Eclipse, Sun One Studio, etc, topics/issues", in a Borland sponsored
forum.</Disclaimer>

<Start_Legit>The only exception might be to provide a impartial comparison
between the
different tools, and even that is stretching it somewhat, unless a specific
question is asked in sincerity and is not trolling </Start_Legit>

Technological comparisons, if done in sincerity, can be constructive. I
would not want to be innundated with articles of the like, but a sincere
questions asking about the merits, or the lack thereof, in relating
advances, shortcoming, features, etc. is fair game, IMHO.

Of course, I do not speak for Borland, nor for everyone that is part of
TeamB ;-)

Post by Alessandro Federici
Personally, I wish there was
more of it. I, for one, once invited Steve Garland on our newsgroups to
talk about ASTA. Information is good if done in a respectful way, like you
did many times.

I have no problems with this, personally. Besides Asta is an add-on for
Delphi that gives distinct advantages to the developer. Most will routinely
answer questions like, How do I use this lib or that lib in JBuilder? Is it
worth it, etc. All of these type questions would be LEGIT QUESTIONS, IMHO.

I would not have any problems, say with a comparison of NET and Java either.
In fact, if you look on the NGs, I just dealt with that subject :).

Comparative technologies are a legit discussion. Trolling, or expecting the
JB NGs to answer questions about "How DO I" in Eclipse, Oracle JDeveloper,
Java Studio Creator, etc, is not.

Post by Alessandro Federici
Anyhow, that said, I am done ;-) This ain't my house and you guys make the
rules.

Well, speaking for me alone, you are welcome to visit. :)

[Alessandro Federici]

"Paul Nichols (TeamB)" <***@comp.net> wrote in message news:***@newsgroups.borland.com...
[..]

Post by Paul Nichols (TeamB)
I am not talking about fair comparisons Alessandro, but more like the
questions that some are posting asking specifically "How do I create SOAP
envelops in Eclipse?", etc.

Well, in this case I totally agree with you. I took it in a more general
sense.

[..]

Post by Paul Nichols (TeamB)
I have no problems with this, personally. Besides Asta is an add-on for
Delphi that gives distinct advantages to the developer.

Right, but the context of that was "in my (=RO) newsgroups".
Anyhow, I agree completely with what you said in the previous post, now that
I better understand the context.

[Paul Nichols (TeamB)]

Post by Alessandro Federici
[..]

Post by Paul Nichols (TeamB)
I am not talking about fair comparisons Alessandro, but more like the
questions that some are posting asking specifically "How do I create SOAP
envelops in Eclipse?", etc.

Well, in this case I totally agree with you. I took it in a more general
sense.

I kinda thought you would ;-)

[Alessandro Federici]

"Paul Nichols (TeamB)" <***@comp.net> wrote in message news:***@newsgroups.borland.com...
[..]

Post by Paul Nichols (TeamB)
I kinda thought you would ;-)

I doubt we have any surprises left for each other ;-)

[Buch]

Post by Paul Nichols (TeamB)
Why would you think that Borland would want to host a ng that discusses
competitor products?

Early in career I was PC seller. When customer turned conversation on other
compaines that did the same, I always informed him about them, where
he can find them or contact them, and even if they have lesser proces than I
did. I could do that because I knew we had lowset prices possible concerning
to
maintain quality of PC components, service, etc, while having profit ...
Most of customers looked at me with puzzled look, but on second thought
appreciated my sincerity, and bought.
Some went to cheaper competition, but returned after some time.
I do the same with software development. I would not feel good when I would
need to hide behind "bussines culture" to justify silence about competition.
I don't need silence about competition, because I give my best, and
therefore I don't have fear of comparison. :) In fact, relaxed talk about
competition shows a lot to buyer.

Another reason migh be data gathering. JB team could have valuable data,
with 50% job already done, when they collect posts from knowledgeable
individuals about features, what is good and what is not good, what could be
better, what is missing ... and what is competition up to.

But like somebody said, I don't make rules here, and I got the message.
Bye

[Paul Nichols (TeamB)]

Post by Buch
Early in career I was PC seller. When customer turned conversation on
other compaines that did the same, I always informed him about them, where
he can find them or contact them, and even if they have lesser proces than
I did. I could do that because I knew we had lowset prices possible
concerning to
maintain quality of PC components, service, etc, while having profit ...
Most of customers looked at me with puzzled look, but on second thought
appreciated my sincerity, and bought.
Some went to cheaper competition, but returned after some time.
I do the same with software development. I would not feel good when I
would need to hide behind "bussines culture" to justify silence about
competition. I don't need silence about competition, because I give my
best, and therefore I don't have fear of comparison. :) In fact, relaxed
talk about competition shows a lot to buyer.

I think that these types of discussons have been allowed, Buch. Maybe I
misunderstood the intent of your post. What I am referring to moreover, is
that this is not a general tool discussion groups, where you can expect
questions to be answered about specific toolsets, other than JBuilder. I do
not want to convey the attitude, however, that this is set in cement.
Asking comparative questions are totally legit, IMHO.

For instance, some post like the example below, is totally legit.

(Example only) I have been using NetBeans for some time, and I find NetBeans
has a really kool feature that allows for package management. JB wants me
to always create a Project before I can start debugging my code or running
code that I have created, without a project designation,. Why is this?

This post would be perfectly legit, IMHO.

However, I would find this example off-topic.

I use Eclipse and I am having a problem with refactoring. How do I do
refactoring on a sub package, in Eclipse?

Answer: Ask on an Eclipse forum.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
We have been receiving some questions on the NGs, relating specifically on
HOW TO's in Eclipse, Net Beans, etc. These types of questions are really
off-topic and have no relation to JB, whatsoever. They are not legit NG
posts, again IMHO.

Post by Buch
Another reason migh be data gathering. JB team could have valuable data,
with 50% job already done, when they collect posts from knowledgeable
individuals about features, what is good and what is not good, what could
be better, what is missing ... and what is competition up to.

I think that these types of questions and discussions are legit, but if too
pointed, would kind of cross into QC. However, if specific problems someone
is having with JB, or something they are wishing for, is a valid discussion
topic, posting such concerns would not violate the NG rules. In fact that
is why they exist.

For instance, if NetBeans had a really kool feature that JB was lacking, it
would be OK to point this out, or offer it for discussion. However, if it
is a unsubstantiated tirade about how NetBeans is superior to JB, I think
it would tend to be off-topic.

Please understand, I do not want to give the impression that the JB NGs are
specifically geared to promoting JB alone, without pointing out what some
users might consider, misdirection, bugs, or the like. It is perfectly
fair to point out some shortcoming, or to ask about potential shortcomings.
Most shortcomings are really user's lack of knowledge, but not all.

What I do not think is fair, is for users of the NG to ask technical
questions about others products in a Borland sponsored forum. This is not
the Oracle JDeveloper NG, nor the Eclipse, NetBeans, nor the Sun Studio,
forum; it is a Borland JBuilder forum. However, if they have a unrelated
Java language or API problem, asking these on the specific ngs, is ok,
since Java is Java, and the language or API question is not IDE specific.

Post by Buch
But like somebody said, I don't make rules here, and I got the message.
Bye

Neither do I. :). Many of your post are instructive and thought provoking.
Hope I did not offend, it was certainly not my intent, nor would I even
remotely attempt to silence your participation. Please remember, I only
speak for myself, not everyone else, and not Borland either. ;-)

Have a very good day, and keep the discussions coming.

[Buch]

Post by Paul Nichols (TeamB)
Hope I did not offend, it was certainly not my intent, nor would I even
remotely attempt to silence your participation. Please remember, I only

Having some insight about your previous posts and personality, I was very
surprised, but I'm glad I was wrong,
because after your latest post I understood better your position.

I'm also guilty a bit ... I was not satisfied with myself concerning how I
expressed some opinions (too briefly) about genders,
and when I tried to move from it, another Paul hit me, so I was agitated.
Perhaps its because summer temperatures .. :))