Discussion:
Delphi Guy Looking at Java
(too old to reply)
Huhtaman
2004-05-14 01:09:45 UTC
Permalink
Hello All:

I am a dedicated Delphi guy who is looking to keep on the cutting edge.
My app runs the sales departments of car dealerships & runs on a Windows
network.

We are considering JBuilder - we want to keep our options open and to
utilize the power of the internet more completely. For the next 3 years -
our customer base will be primarily windows networks with larger ones
possibly running Unix.

Any comments would be appreciated - especially from those familiar with
Delphi.


Thank you.


Neil Huhta
Bill D. Pirkle
2004-05-14 15:23:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Huhtaman
Any comments would be appreciated - especially from those familiar with
Delphi.
I haven't used Delphi, but I recently switched from C++ Builder to
JBuilder as my main development tool. I've been mostly happy with
JBuilder, and with Java in general.

The JBuilder IDE is a little sluggish compared to C++ Builder, but not
terribly so, and a faster computer would take care of that. (I'm
using a PII 1.2GHz 512 Meg RAM.) I found JBuilder's code browsing
features are far superior to C++ Builder's.

JBuilder's release cycle is much faster than Delphi's. I'm using JB9
Developer which is a version behind now.

I'm doing all my GUI coding by hand, so I can't comment on the visual
development tools. Coming from C++ Builder, which has RAD rougly
equivalent to Delphi, I wouldn't have expected I'd bypass the
designer. But I've found Swing to be very coder-friendly and I feel
like I'm learning the internals better this way. Feel free to think
I'm nuts. ;-)

As Java is far more consistent across development tools than
VCL+Windows+C++, I've been able to get many answers from archives of
non-JBuilder newsgroups, Java Web sites etc. (Not that these groups
aren't great!) With VCL, I could pretty much only get answers from
the Borland site or Borland groups, or Borland-specific Web sites.
That said, I've found the overall usefulness of the official Java
documentation to be much lower than in C++ Builder. So I sometimes
have a very hard time finding my own answer to a newbie question. Get
some good resources.

I've already run into a few "write once crash everywhere" problems,
but I expect some of that because (1) cross platform is asking a lot
(2) I still have a lot to learn (3) I'm writing a Java applet, which
is more susceptible to this than a Java application.

If your software is going anywhere out of your control, make sure you
obfuscate. (I've seen a lot of positive things about the not-free
Zelix Klassmaster but after some initial setup woes, I've had good
luck with the free yGuard.)

I have some performance-critical display code, which isn't exactly
Java's strength. So a profiler was important to me. There are a
bunch of commercial ones that are probably very good, but (again after
some setup woes) I got the free "ejp" to work.

I may eventually "graduate" from the free tools, as I see advantages
to the commerical ones. But at least now I'll know a little more
about what I need before I spend any money.

There's probably more, but that's all off the top of my head. Hope it
goes well for you!
Lori M Olson (TeamB)
2004-05-14 16:38:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Huhtaman
I am a dedicated Delphi guy who is looking to keep on the cutting edge.
My app runs the sales departments of car dealerships & runs on a Windows
network.
We are considering JBuilder - we want to keep our options open and to
utilize the power of the internet more completely. For the next 3 years -
our customer base will be primarily windows networks with larger ones
possibly running Unix.
Any comments would be appreciated - especially from those familiar with
Delphi.
Thank you.
Neil Huhta
This web site is maintained by a Java+Delphi guy.

http://www.computer-logic.net/javadelphi/index.htm
--
Regards,

Lori Olson (TeamB)

------------

Save yourself, and everyone else, some time and search the
newsgroups and the FAQ-O-Matic before posting your next
question.

Google Advanced Newsgroup Search
http://www.google.ca/advanced_group_search
Other Newsgroup Searches:
http://www.borland.com/newsgroups/ngsearch.html
Joi Ellis's FAQ-O-Matic:
http://www.visi.com/~gyles19/fom-serve/cache/1.html
pnichols
2004-05-16 17:10:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Huhtaman
We are considering JBuilder - we want to keep our options open and to
utilize the power of the internet more completely. For the next 3 years -
our customer base will be primarily windows networks with larger ones
possibly running Unix.
Any comments would be appreciated - especially from those familiar with
Delphi.
I would start with out looking at our Java for Delphi programmers site, even
though many of the methods we use on this somewhat antiquated site, have
been deprecated.

You will need to work some with Swing, as it is a different animal from
Delphi. Concentrate on the basics (from the Web site), and play with the
Layout managers, especially Grid Bag Layout, Flow Layout, and Border
Layout, which will probably be the ones you will most use; especially
coming from Delphi.

After your play and exposure period, get a good Swing book, if you are going
to do Web Start or GUI apps. Stay away from Applet based applications, use
Web Start instead. Reserve applets for small and lightweight duty overall.
Many people try and start with applets (because they think it is so cool,
and it can be), but they quickly get frustrated, fighting the security
issues and the Java sandbox. Actually, I think that you will find it much
more beneficial to use Web Start for Java GUI applications overall and so
will your customers. Much cleaner, no need to do a download each time, and
has great version control built in (from the end user level, not the
developer level understand).

You are going to have some issues learning everything about Java. Components
are one area that will drive you nuts. You are used to Event driven models
exposed as part of the components themselves in Delphi. In Java however,
events are handled through Event handlers and listeners, much like the
Windows API at the lower levels. If you need a good Java Swing component
set that will rival what you are used to in Delphi, look at JSuite
(http://www.infragistics.com/products/jsuite_portal.asp). A little pricey,
but will feel more natural to you. The JB components themselves, will be
more familiar, as they are modeled after Delphi.

It is hard to tell you more than this, since I have no idea what you are
doing. Java is going to take some time to learn, but do not feel too
frustrated. Java is not going to be as easy to pick up as Delphi was, and
you may get annoyed at the fact that you will find it much harder to drag
and drop your way to success in Java than you did in Delphi.

But if you experiment, read, and learn, you will find that you really like
Java, and the "write once, run everywhere" motto, is basically true.

A Delphi that would do what Java does, would be great and I could say I
would even prefer it. But Delphi is not xplatform and will never be for all
intents and purposes. Therfore, Java is the best game in town, if you want
to ensure that your app covers the most platforms, literally unchanged
(except when you are making native OS calls, of course).

For Server side or Web development, I would actually prefer Java over
Delphi. Java is sweet for developing Web applications, Web Services, and
server side processing.

If you like total application control, you will like Java. If you are a drag
and drop Guru :), then you will probably find Java frustrating.

JBuilder is the best Java development tool overall, IMHO. JB offers some RAD
features, but not as RAD as Delphi, for GUI development. Not JB's fault,
that is the nature of Java GUI beast.

Nealry all of my beginning Delphi to Java students (VB included here), find
the LayoutManagers their first major hurdle. They quickly get furstrated
with these, and our www.computer-logic.net/javadelphi/ site handles this
dicussion. I highly suggest you go there and look at the lessons.
Guillermo Nájar-Arreola
2004-05-21 18:20:51 UTC
Permalink
Paul,
I come from Delphi world too. I'm in the process of learning Java using
JBuilder X foundation. Are there sites that offer you GUI rich components
like for Delphi, other than the infragistics ? are there communities of GUI
free components for Java, like those of Delphi like Rx for example?

Thanx,
Guillermo
Post by pnichols
Post by Huhtaman
We are considering JBuilder - we want to keep our options open and to
utilize the power of the internet more completely. For the next 3 years -
our customer base will be primarily windows networks with larger ones
possibly running Unix.
Any comments would be appreciated - especially from those familiar with
Delphi.
I would start with out looking at our Java for Delphi programmers site, even
though many of the methods we use on this somewhat antiquated site, have
been deprecated.
You will need to work some with Swing, as it is a different animal from
Delphi. Concentrate on the basics (from the Web site), and play with the
Layout managers, especially Grid Bag Layout, Flow Layout, and Border
Layout, which will probably be the ones you will most use; especially
coming from Delphi.
After your play and exposure period, get a good Swing book, if you are going
to do Web Start or GUI apps. Stay away from Applet based applications, use
Web Start instead. Reserve applets for small and lightweight duty overall.
Many people try and start with applets (because they think it is so cool,
and it can be), but they quickly get frustrated, fighting the security
issues and the Java sandbox. Actually, I think that you will find it much
more beneficial to use Web Start for Java GUI applications overall and so
will your customers. Much cleaner, no need to do a download each time, and
has great version control built in (from the end user level, not the
developer level understand).
You are going to have some issues learning everything about Java. Components
are one area that will drive you nuts. You are used to Event driven models
exposed as part of the components themselves in Delphi. In Java however,
events are handled through Event handlers and listeners, much like the
Windows API at the lower levels. If you need a good Java Swing component
set that will rival what you are used to in Delphi, look at JSuite
(http://www.infragistics.com/products/jsuite_portal.asp). A little pricey,
but will feel more natural to you. The JB components themselves, will be
more familiar, as they are modeled after Delphi.
It is hard to tell you more than this, since I have no idea what you are
doing. Java is going to take some time to learn, but do not feel too
frustrated. Java is not going to be as easy to pick up as Delphi was, and
you may get annoyed at the fact that you will find it much harder to drag
and drop your way to success in Java than you did in Delphi.
But if you experiment, read, and learn, you will find that you really like
Java, and the "write once, run everywhere" motto, is basically true.
A Delphi that would do what Java does, would be great and I could say I
would even prefer it. But Delphi is not xplatform and will never be for all
intents and purposes. Therfore, Java is the best game in town, if you want
to ensure that your app covers the most platforms, literally unchanged
(except when you are making native OS calls, of course).
For Server side or Web development, I would actually prefer Java over
Delphi. Java is sweet for developing Web applications, Web Services, and
server side processing.
If you like total application control, you will like Java. If you are a drag
and drop Guru :), then you will probably find Java frustrating.
JBuilder is the best Java development tool overall, IMHO. JB offers some RAD
features, but not as RAD as Delphi, for GUI development. Not JB's fault,
that is the nature of Java GUI beast.
Nealry all of my beginning Delphi to Java students (VB included here), find
the LayoutManagers their first major hurdle. They quickly get furstrated
with these, and our www.computer-logic.net/javadelphi/ site handles this
dicussion. I highly suggest you go there and look at the lessons.
Guillermo Nájar-Arreola
2004-05-24 22:47:02 UTC
Permalink
Thank you Paul !
Post by Guillermo Nájar-Arreola
Paul,
I come from Delphi world too. I'm in the process of learning Java using
JBuilder X foundation. Are there sites that offer you GUI rich components
like for Delphi, other than the infragistics ? are there communities of
GUI free components for Java, like those of Delphi like Rx for example?
Thanx,
Guillermo
http://www.activetree.com/
http://www.javadesktop.org/rollups/components/index.html
(not all are free on this site)
http://pswing.sourceforge.net/components.html
http://www.jsurfer.org/categories.php?op=newindex&catid=4
Hope this helps ya!!
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